Interview with Andy Cairns on Shameless

by Richard May for Pixelsurgeon (2001)

Therapy? guitarist and frontman Andy Cairns talks to Pixelsurgeon about record company bullshit, working with photographer Anton Corbijn, and life as a rock ’n’ roll dad. We also managed to squeeze a track-by-track rundown of new album Shameless out of the affable Irish axe-wielder. Rock on…

Pixelsurgeon: Therapy? have registered on the radar of every hyped-fuelled rock press scene going over the last decade, but you’ve always managed to dodge convenient categorisation. Has sticking to your guns and evolving and diversifying on your terms made you stronger as a band, more able to simply knuckle down and deliver the goods?

ANDY CAIRNS: For nearly eleven years now, since our beginnings in County Antrim, Ulster, Therapy? have always been first and foremost, fans of music. This has meant that we play whatever the fuck we like regardless of surrounding trends. This has always been exciting for us in whatever incarnation of the band (we started as a trio, lost and gained a drummer and eventually morphed into a quartet) but frustrating for other people in these branded times, who like their cherished ‘products’ to do exactly what they say on the tin.

… Therapy? have always been first and foremost, fans of music. This has meant that we play whatever the fuck we like regardless of surrounding trends.

Our biggest commercial success was in 93/94. Around that time the music influencing us was our old punk and post punk records. The EPs, singles and Troublegum album released in this era sold by the truck full, got us on TV, magazine covers and radio. Post Nirvana, this blend of melodic punk rock and hi-energy aggression couldn’t really fail, however many hardcore punk fans saw this as too much of a departure from our roots. These same idiots would later go on to buy albums by Green Day and Offspring a year later.

Originally, our early records (Babyteeth, Pleasure Death and Nurse) had fused punk, noise-rock and techno/new-beat sounds, and at that time the ‘dance elements’ of these albums annoyed the punks who thought that we weren’t hardcore enough. These same “irritating bloody dance beats” can be heard everywhere today from Slipknot, Limp Bizkit etc, to The Prodigy and beyond.

95’s Infernal Love was released after Troublegum, when the band was fed up with working in the ‘rage-rock for rage-rock’s sake’ scene. We’d been listening to This Mortal Coil, Birthday Party and Big Stars third album. The album was brooding, dark and romantic and spawned the single Diane, a cover version of an old Hüsker Dü tune arranged for just strings and voice.

Although the single was a success in most of Europe; in Britain, in the clutches of Britpop, it wasn’t received very well. One magazine commented on the ludicrousness of a rock band releasing a single driven by a string quartet. About a year later, Verve topped the charts with Bitter Sweet Symphony.

Anyway, I don’t want this to sound like a biography! The next records we subsequently released have been two of our best! 98’s Semi-Detached (emotional rock without the angst) and 99’s Suicide Pact—You First (blackly-humourous rifferama with extra distortion).

We’ve gone through a lot as a band but our attitude is simple, if there ever comes a day when we aren’t enjoying it, then it stops. To a degree, the early commercial success of the band means that we can afford to still tour and record, and our live reputation and history of a hard working touring band means that we have a good fanbase world-wide, and because we’ve stuck to our guns it’s a fanbase that’s ready for any artistic diversions we throw at them.

Pixelsurgeon: How did you find working with Anton Corbijn for the Infernal Love shoots? Was there a particular reason for choosing him, or was it an A&M suggestion; like, hey guys, you’re big league now, let’s get some classy monochrome shots in the bag?

Anton Corbijn was easy to work with, very relaxed, no fussy lights (he only used natural light) and a gorgeous location (Portugal).

It was strange how we ended up working with him. When A&M asked us who we’d like to work with for the album photos, we jokingly replied “Anton Corbijn!!” knowing that he had previously worked with world famous acts.

However, it transpired that the then managing director of A&M, Osmond Ertegun, knew him from his previous job at Mute Records where Corbijn had worked with two of his artists, Nick Cave and Depeche Mode. Osmond phoned him up and before you could say “The Joshua Tree” we had a photo session booked!

We went along with it because at that point, things were getting more and more hectic and surreal and the band more and more out of our depth, we just thought, fuck it, in for a penny…

I’m pretty pleased with the results, I think you can tell that we were having fun, which is what we needed at that point, as the previous six weeks had been spent living out of each others egos in the studio.

An interesting footnote to all this was the price… thirty five thousand pounds! Osmond loved the record and believed in it. It was no problem, he said. Spending more money than we were used to (coming from our punk background) was ok as it would add to the atmosphere and feel of the album.

… it was deemed that they had already spent way too much money on the band for what they were getting back. When we asked “what money?” they replied, “well… there was the Corbijn photo shoot, Real World Studios, a couple of flashy videos…”

As for the album itself, we normally worked in modest studios, simply out of habit. Before recording, our A&R guy persuaded us that it was appropriate to take “a step up” and booked us into the luxurious (and very expensive) Real World Studios in Bath.

With the album and photo shoot out of the way, it was time to shoot a couple of videos.

We suggested an Irish friend of ours who had done some cool stuff. In stepped the video department to tell us that no matter how “cool” our friends video might look, it wouldn’t get played on MTV, so they spent nearly two hundred thousand pounds on a ‘known’ director to ensure that it would.

Anyway, fast forward to 1998. A&M is announced as finished within the Polygram Group. Our A&R department contacted us to tell us everything was ok, they’d be going to Mercury Records (another label within the Polygram Group) and taking us with them. Our album Semi-Detached had only just been released and although initial sales were slow, with a European tour and word of mouth they were finally beginning to pick up. To seize on this opportunity, we went to our supposedly new label to ask for support for another four month tour of Europe.

Not only did our old A&R ‘friends’ not give us any funding, they also told us we would not be going to Mercury Records. Despite at this point having sold over two million records for the Polygram Group, it was deemed that they had already spent way too much money on the band for what they were getting back. When we asked “what money?” they replied, “well… there was the Corbijn photo shoot, Real World Studios, a couple of flashy videos…”

Pixelsurgeon: By all accounts, Infernal Love seems to be the album you’d rather forget for various reasons, and you’re often quick to dismiss it as the drug-fuelled, pretentious song writer phase. Now you’ve had time to reflect on that period, are there any songs in particular that you’ve grown to love again?

Only recently have I begun to like Infernal Love. At the time, because of all the pressure that was involved with making it, I found it hard to listen to. On reflection though, it was the only time I hadn’t tried to lace the songs with as much black humour as before.

I was dealing with genuinely uncomfortable feelings and a sense of alienation and loss which people found hard to take seriously. After all, I wasn’t a shrinking wallflower like Kurt Cobain, a crippled everyman like Eddie Vedder or a super sensitive romantic like Richey Manic. I was Andy Cairns, the happy-go-lucky gurning punk-metal loon who liked a drink or two, didn’t act like a spoilt rock star and turned up for his interviews on time. Not a good role model for the dispossessed!

My favourite tracks on the album are probably Jude The Obscene and Bowels Of Love. I also like the tone of the album now. Listening to it is almost as if I’ve accidentally stumbled across a private radio broadcast.

Strangely enough, despite the panning it received at the time from critics and fans alike, people I’ve recently been meeting at gigs (especially our recent US tour where the album was hardly pushed at all) have been telling me that it’s one of their favourite Therapy? records. Better late than never I suppose.

Pixelsurgeon: Has becoming a dad given you some perspective on the whole rock ’n’ roll game?

Since becoming a father I’ve been able to return to the Therapy? catchphrase of yore, “don’t take yourself too seriously.” Parenthood has given me a great deal of humanitarian grounding, which I can use as a starting point for other areas of my life. Rock ’n’ roll isn’t one of them.

Most were asking, “are the band going to make a record like Troublegum?”, while others were patronising, saying things like “here, give this Slipknot album a listen” …

Pixelsurgeon: Suicide Pact really did seem like a true back-to-Babyteeth approach, as opposed to Semi-Detached which was mooted as such in every press release but seemed a little… idiosyncratic. Although you guys have almost trademarked idiosyncratic, it didn’t gel for me, whereas Suicide Pact was the sound of Therapy? getting back to business, and yet conversely, almost experimental in places…

Suicide Pact was a special album for us. We had been through a lot of shit when looking for other labels. Most were asking, “are the band going to make a record like Troublegum?”, while others were patronising, saying things like “here, give this Slipknot album a listen” or “take a look at Coal Chamber, you know, image is 75% of metal sales these days”. As you can imagine, statements like these didn’t win over anyone in the Therapy? camp.

In the end we signed to ARK 21 because they offered us a two album deal with world-wide release, no questions asked. What you hear on Suicide Pact is a band with nothing to prove and a new sense of freedom, which is probably why it bears a resemblance to Babyteeth, attitude-wise at least. With Babyteeth, it was our first record, we made it for ourselves and had no idea of what we should be doing. Both records also sound as though you’re standing in a small room with the music closing in around you, which is something I really like on an album.

With Semi-Detached, it was a more confusing affair. Initially, the bunch of songs we had written had a tougher feel and a more off-kilter approach, songs like Safe, Tramline, Straight Life and Born Too Soon, in demo form at least, were abrasive and sonically in your face.

There was a bunch of factors that confused the final recording. Firstly, the record was recorded on and off in little bursts over a period off nearly two years, at different studios and in-between touring, so the creative focus kept shifting. Secondly, I wrote Church Of Noise, Lonely, Cryin’, Only and Don’t Expect Roses in an afternoon and stuck them on to tape. When the producer and record company heard these tracks they wanted to go more in a ‘poppier’ direction and ditch the ‘psychedelic-hardcore-headfuck’ album we had started out to make.

The result was an ill-advised compromise. The melodic tunes just aren’t chart friendly enough and the more challenging tracks have had the edges smoothed away so they sit cosily beside the others.

… I’m proud of Lonely, Cryin’ and Church, and think they’re two of the best songs I’ve written, but part of me can’t help wondering how glorious a noise-fest it might have been had we got our shit together …

It’s one of those instances that with hindsight (a wonderful thing) we could have thought more about. A&M America never released the album, but ironically enough the import copies garnered great reviews over there and our fanmail site is constantly getting mail from the States asking if we’re ever going to release it over there!

Personally, I’m proud of Lonely, Cryin’ and Church, and think they’re two of the best songs I’ve written, but part of me can’t help wondering how glorious a noise-fest it might have been had we got our shit together and taken it the other way.

Pixelsurgeon: Suicide Pact also had that killer “last track so let’s fuckin’ go for it!” tune with Sister. Dancing With Manson, Potato Junkie, Hypermania, Brainsaw, 30 Seconds… all present and correct, or is it just me?

Yeah, I agree. Apart from Hypermania, which I can’t listen to now. Originally, Fyfe and I had sampled lots of movie dialogue which we had intended to drop in over the track instead of lyrics. At the final hour we couldn’t get clearance, so we had about two hours to make stuff up on the spot. God, we hammed it up something rotten. Not nice.

Pixelsurgeon: You seem to be getting your teeth into the States/Canada at last, almost at a grass roots level. How do you find working and playing over there?

We’re doing the States now the way we should have done six years ago. Then, there was record company hype and money, that only pissed people off and made them suspicious. These days we play realistic sized venues, book the tours in co-operation with a down-to-earth agent, and get to know the T-heads over there that love the band and give us full support. Our only plans for America are to build a strong enough fanbase, so that we have to make it a regular fixture every time we book a tour. We’ve done the European circuit now, twice a year for the last three years, it’s important that we shake things up a bit.

… Apart from Hypermania, which I can’t listen to now … we had about two hours to make stuff up on the spot. God, we hammed it up something rotten. Not nice.

Pixelsurgeon: Take us through the new album. How was the whole writing and studio thing?

The new album, Shameless, is pretty much a straightforward punk rock ’n’ roll album (bar a handful of trademark kinks) it’s got more ‘tunes’ than Suicide Pact, and pretty much reflects the no-nonsense trash-rock that we’ve been returning to in the face of so-called ‘Nu-Metal.’ Here’s a brief critique:

Gimme Back My Brain
A Ramonesy scorcher to shake off the cobwebs to.

Dance
Sleazy swamp riffage to grind your dirty denims to. The Jesus Lizard and Turbo Negro slugging it out for a place in fuckland!

This One’s For You
A Misfits-style, fists in the air sing-a-long punk rock tune. Inspired by the Francis Bacon movie, Love Is The Devil.

I Am The Money
Black Sabbath’s Sweet Leaf meets Human League’s Sound of the Crowd, with Led Zep drums. Coming to a toxic dance floor near you!

Wicked Man
Doghouse blues in the shape of sixties garage rock, meets the Murder City Devils.

Joey Wipe-Out!
A surf punk stomper, dedicated to legendary Northern Irish motorcycle rider, Joey Dunlop.

Endless Psychology
White trash glam-groover, lamenting the short attention span culture that’s heaped on this nations youth.

Theme From DeLorean
Lost car chase soundtrack, paranoid and wired. With bongos.

Body Bag Girl
Smack rock tale of a junkie girl who tried to sell us ‘Bodybag’ heroin in the states. Not nice. A marriage of Iggy Pop’s Nightclubbing and the Glitterband’s drum style helps to tell this sorry story.

Tango Romeo
From a lost rock opera, this is an ode to the joy of being strip-searched! Queens of the Stone Age and The Who keep an eye on the carnage.

Stalk And Slash
Relentless riffage propels the album to a sudden finale. The sound of being chased by suicidal maniacs on super strong anti-depressants. like, heavy man.

Related Interviews

Reviews of ‘Shameless’